Following a 26-year career at the U.S. Geological Survey, Valentin Tepordei retired in January and now serves as scientist emeritus. He created the quarterly survey that tracks aggregate production across the United States and has been pushing to have aggregate production figures recognized as a key economic indicator. In February, I sat down with Val in his Arlington, Va., home to discuss the aggregate industry. Born and raised in Romania, English is not his native language. In recording our conversation, I've left his accent intact to better convey the sound of his voice.

Rock Products: How did you get interested in geological engineering?

Valentin Tepordei: “My dream from the time I was a kid was photography. When I got closer to making a decision about the university, I wanted to be a movie cameraman. But, my father was in prison in the Soviet Union with a 25-year, hard-labor sentence. We are a family in the eastern part of Romania. In 1939 my native land was given to the Soviets. I was one of the former members of the old regime, against communism, for that reason we were on the black list. I was thrown out of high school in my last year of class because they found out that my father was a priest. It took me three years to finish high school. I wanted to go to the university. A friend who was a professor advised us the only way to do it was to fill out the application that my father was dead; otherwise they would not let me in the university. My mother took me to talk to an adviser because I wanted to be a moviemaker. He said ‘no, no this is propaganda. Why don't you do something more practical like geological engineering.’ He was the professor. That's how I became a geological engineer, but photography stayed with me.

“My father came back from the Soviet Union during my second year at the university. When Stalin died in 1953, Eisenhower paid a lot of money to free the German soldiers who were still prisoners of war. With that, the Romanians and the Poles got out too. Every year you have to fill out forms to go to the university, and I listed my father as living — nothing happened. In the fifth year they checked my files and said, ‘Wait a minute, in the first year your father is dead and in the second year he came back to life.’ So they threw me out in the fifth year with only half a year left at the university. It took me four years to get approval to finish.

“I had jobs, but every time there was a promotion, it was ‘oh, you are not a member of the Communist Party.’ One of my last jobs was when Romania started building a concrete dam on the Danube River with the Yugoslavians. I got to work in a section that was designing and preparing for construction of the locks. It is probably the largest dam on the Danube River. I was one of three engineers on the dam. At one point the two guys decided to leave, and I ended up being, without any political connections, project manager. The head of the Department of Transportation wanted me to become his deputy. I told him about my father, he said ‘don't worry about it; I'll take care of everything.’ I worked with him quite well. He was a member of the Communist Party. I was doing the work, and he was presenting it.”

RP: How did you make it to the United States?

VT: “In 1968, I went on vacation to Czechoslovakia on Aug. 20. The next morning I was awoken by the huge noise on the street. The Soviets came to liberate Czechoslovakia. For three days we were locked in; the city was circled. At that time, I was married to my first wife, and she did not want to defect. I had a chance at that point to defect. We went back home to Romania, and everybody was panicked because Romanian troops were the only ones who did not participate with the Soviets in Czechoslovakia. We came back home, and my wife asked if we could go now. Then, every time you traveled you had to get a new passport. We applied. Of course they rejected us two months later. Then she told her parents about it. I left for a one-week trip to inspect one of the harbors on the Danube River. When I came back I found the house was empty. (Her parents) said better in jail here, than with him abroad. A couple of months later I met my second wife.

“In the 1960s I was quite active in the Professional Society of Photographers in Romania. The association decided to write a series of books on photography. I wrote number four. This little booklet was the first one in Romania that published recipes on how to process (German and American) film. Up to that point we were only processing Russian film. The German film company found out about it and invited me for two weeks in West Germany. I asked my wife to let me go before starting the divorce proceedings, (otherwise) I would never get a passport. Two weeks later, I get the notification of divorce. So, because of that the (defection) died.

“But every year I was going to Czechoslovakia for photography. In 1969, I was going to Czechoslovakia for vacation, and I would try to cross the border into Austria. I was gambling, because we did not occupy Czechoslovakia with the Soviets, that they were very sympathetic to us and would probably let me go. And that's what they did.

“I went on 50-50 chance that I could be arrested. When you go into a foreign country you had to register your camera, watch jewelry so they knew you didn't buy anything. (At the border) I said I didn't have this form. (The boarder guard) said, ‘Without the form I can't let you go.’ I said, ‘I'll pay penalty, something.’ He said, ‘I'll let you go, but next time ….’ I said, ‘There will be no next time.’ He knew that I was defecting. And the proof is I still have my passport and there is no stamp exiting Czechoslovakia.”

RP: Were you nervous?

VT: “Oh, shoot. Once I finished clearing with the Czechs, they let me put everything in my car. I start the engine, and I see the barrier with two soldiers, and it is closed. I look in the back and there are two more guards laughing. I said ‘that's it, they will get me now, because they didn't open the boarder.’ After a minute one of the soldiers opened it. I pressed on my Fiat (accelerator so hard); that thing was on two wheels. At that moment I see another barrier on the other side with no guard. I realized I can go under the barrier. If I have my front wheels in Austria, I'm OK. Crazy thinking. So I did that. I had the barrier stuck right in my windshield. I got out of the car and went on the other side. The Czechs were the only ones protecting the boarder on this side. I see a little hill with a guard (house) and leave the car to go up there. I arrive and the guy starts talking German. Shoot, I don't speak German. But, he came and opened the barrier.”

RP: How did your wife make it over?

VT: “We were not married at the time. Her mother was against our relationship, so for about four or five years we did not communicate at all. In 1976, I get a phone call from someone in Romania who had a message and a small package from my father. I was in New York at the time. He asked, did I get married. I said, I did it once but it didn't work out then I met another girl, but she didn't want to defect. He said he could help find another girl. I said, no I like Geraldine. He said, ‘Geraldine, she is our neighbor.’ And that's how we got in touch. I started contacting people on the Congress (to ask that she be allowed to come to the United States). I had sent letters to President Carter. Finally I got the call from the congressman's office in New York that she got her passport. She came to Italy, and I went to meet her. It was the first time I had seen her in seven years. We got married in 1978.”

RP: How did you come to work for the U.S. government?

VT: “Geraldine's the one who liked Washington because it looks like European cities. We were living in Queens at the time. All the jobs were in New York. So I checked into the bureau of mines. I started here in 1979 as the sand and gravel specialist. In 1981 we had the reorganization. The crushed stone specialist was my boss, the number-two guy, he calls me in and says, ‘Congratulations you are the crushed stone specialist. I got promoted.’”

RP: What is the best thing happening in the aggregate industry?

VT: “That it is maturing. And they are taking a more reasonable approach to mining. They are dealing with the communities, and they are concerned about the environment. In the last 10 to 20 years I've noticed a significant change in the image of the industry. We have to recognize that in the past the mining industry in general did a lot of damage to the environment, and they didn't care about it. The aggregate industry lately is doing much better in that respect. And they realize they have to do it.

“I have given several presentations on long-range approach to mining. This thing actually started about 16 years ago. The issue was this: don't apply for a mining permit only, come up with a master plan to develop the area for the next 10, 15, or 20 years. The mining of sand and gravel or crushed stone will be just one phase of the development. Buy a larger piece of property where there aren't any deposits. Right away build an industrial park. You won't have the protests you do from a housing development. Second, start in stages and once you mine a part, start building there immediately.

“If you go to a community and present a plan for the next 20 years and they know exactly what is going to happen and that it is well planned, things are going to go much easier. For some reason, that thing more or less died. This is the way of the future for the industry. The aggregate industry has to vertically integrate, even if they don't start building housing themselves or industrial parks. They are going to have to establish some joint ventures and work on planning; otherwise they are not going to be able to survive.

“We are not going to run out of aggregates. The only problem with aggregates is that it will come from a longer distance. This distance keeps growing because development keeps spreading. The other thing I see happening in the last 10 or 15 years are the increase in the number of sales or distribution yards. (And) the distribution sites are now becoming recycling sites. We have close to 200 sales yards in the U.S. and they keep growing. They have become the good guy because they are doing recycling.”

RP: What is the worst thing happening in the aggregate industry?

VT: “That reclamation is not done to the standard that it should be done. I visited Canada several times — and they have much stronger reclamation requirements. Safety is quite good in the industry. Even the safety record in underground mines is quite good. I don't see any problems on that. I don't see that many problems.

“Reclamation will help in the long run because it will improve the image of the industry. They will be able to get the permits easier, and so on. There is a large difference between the states. You go to California, and you cannot drive a nail in a fence without seven permits. Canada has a more balanced approach to the permitting and reclamation. They are not tough without any good reason. When I was there the first time, I was impressed by what they were talking about. Here, nobody was talking about reclamation; they thought you were crazy.”

RP: Besides vertical integration, what else should aggregate producers do to improve their future?

VT: “In 1991 and 1993 people from the Department of Transportation went to six European countries. They were amazed by what they found. First of all, the roads are significantly thicker. The foundations are twice to three times deeper than we have here. The big novelty for Americans was in Europe they have roads built under 10-, 15-, 20-year warranties. That's important because you give the contractor more freedom to design and build the roads the way he thinks they should be. And if something happens, he is going to come right away and maintain it. Now, you have DOT guys following every third truck picking up rock samples and weighing them. It is a much more expensive and labor-intensive and slower than the other approach. The problem we have now is that we are still under the lowest-bid contract. The regulations were not changed to the extent that you had to get the best possible product for the price. They are starting to do that. For example, a year ago Interstate 44 was built under contract for 10 years. The project was finished in two years instead of seven and all kinds of other things. It is moving slowly, but I think that is the way to go in the future.

“It will help the aggregate industry because you are going to have a better working relationship with the contractor. You are not going to have the project split into small sections that sometimes are inconsistent. It is a mature way of solving the problem.”

RP: Will the aggregate producer have to share the warranty's responsibility?

VT: “Yes. But because you are working with this kind of contract, you can use more fines. As we know very well, in other countries, especially in Europe, they are using significantly more fines in asphalt and concrete roads and they are working very well. We are still stuck with the 5%, and because of that we are wasting a lot of fines. With the warranty contract, if the aggregate producer convinces the contractor and the contractor knows exactly what's good or not, they can have a significantly larger market for their fines. I see it as a significant advantage in that respect.”

RP: How long until this is accepted as the standard?

VT: “It is already being accepted. It is growing. You have the problem that each state has requirements that are different. You also have the International Center for Aggregates Research that is pushing to some extent. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the research done by ICAR is being used by the industry. ICAR and NSSGA are not pushing hard enough on the warranty issue. I think they should do that. The industry will significantly improve its image if you have less potholes, and when you have them, they stay for much shorter than in the past. Right now, you have the maintenance done by the DOT guys and he just curses the guy who did such a poor job. If you have the contractor do the maintenance, it is a completely different story.”

RP: What are the chances that the mineral survey will become an economic indicator?

VT: “We have a program in the USGS in which you can volunteer to work on your own time. On the minerals information team, I am the first one. When you apply for something like this it is on a yearly basis, and you have to indicate some project. I have several projects. One of them is the economic indicator. I am pushing very hard. I think I did as much as I could. For example, two years ago the NSSGA and the board of directors voted a motion to support my efforts, but then I didn't get anything back from that.

“We had a meeting with the chief statistician in the Office of Management and Budget. She said, ‘Val, you convinced us. The problem is we do not have a formal procedure for adding new economic indicators.’ My argument is this: there are two federal economic indicators for construction industry. The housing starts are very easy to collect the information, easy to tabulate and easy to produce. Because of that, it became very popular. But it represents a very small section of the industry. The second significant indicator is the total construction put in place. This is after what's finished. I am giving you something every three months.

“Now I have more freedom. I am working on my own time. If I don't get help from the industry, I'm not going to be able to do it. For some reason they are not realizing the significance of this thing. It would be much easier to go to the Hill and say, ‘What do you mean you are cutting funds to the team that produces one of the major construction economic indicators.’ For some reason it is not clicking in the industry. But, I'm not giving up on that.

“When I started in 1989, my supervisor thought I was crazy. I never thought it would reach the level it reached now and would have the potential to become an economic indicator. Now I think I can go further. All we need is some good documentation in support of this for OMB. I hope they can do it for next year. I am very optimistic. I have 10 months to go on this thing, and I think we can do it this year.”

RP: How accurate are the quarterly reports?

VT: “Quite close. The differences between the annual and quarterly is very small. We check it the following year with the full survey. They actually work together. You could do the annual without the quarterly. But you wouldn't be able to do the quarterly without the annual.”

RP: What will you do in retirement?

VT: “Honestly I work quite hard since I retired. Instead of going to the office three days a week, I go one day a week. I didn't want to cut ties completely because there are some projects I want to finish, the main one being the economic indicator. If I succeed in that then I can say now I really retire. I've just changed the balance of things. I have more time to work on photography.”